E1b1b1a2 in Scotland

[Brett Kerry Johnson]

Hi All,  I'd be interested in conversing with anyone of Scottish descent who has had their Yline tested as E1b1b1a2 or V 13.  The best theory for our V 13 Johnsons being from the Scots border area is that our Yline is descended from Thracian troops stationed on or around Hadrian's Wall. 

[mark young]

As a Young we are a very close match 13 24 13 10 16 16 11 12 12 13 11 30

[Matthew James Young]

Hi Mark,

Your STR markers indicate that you are most likely e1b1b1a1b/e1b1b1a2 V13+ which I am. We share the same surname, though Young is quite common. However, E1b1b1 is not common at all for Youngs of Scottish ancestry. My markers differ slightly from yours: 

13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 12 13 30.

[mark young]

• What is the Thracian 12 Marker modal?

The Family Tree DNA Recent Ancestral Origins database clearly demonstrates that the E1b1b1a1b (E-V13) 12 Marker modal and the author overwhelmingly match origins (Genetic Distance = 1) best with test subjects from Bulgaria (formerly Thrace).  The author is at a respectable Genetic Distance of 17 from the 67 Marker modal.

Test Subject	DYS Number
	393	390	19	391	385a	385b	426	388	439	389-1	392	389-2
Modal	13	24	13	10	16	18	11	12	12	13	11	30
The Author	13	24	13	10	16	18	11	12	13	13	11	30

[mark young]

I think we came from the border region of scotland middle marshes as this is where most Youngs where from and is excactly where the Thracian troops stayed.

[mark young]

Distance: 2 - Related
35/37 We share the same surname (or a variant) with another male and you mismatch by only two 'points' --a 35/37 match. It's most likely that you matched 24/25 or 25/25 on previous Y-DNA tests and your mismatch will be found within DYS 439 or DYS 385 A, 385 B,389-1 and 389-2, from our first panel of 12 markers, or from within the second panel at DYS #'s 458, 459 a, 459b, 449, or within 464 a-d. If you matched exactly on previous tests you probably have a mismatch at DYS 576, 570, CDYa or CDYb in our newest panel of markers. Your mismatch is likely within the range of most well established surname lineages in Western Europe.

[Ross Kilpatrick]

Greetings Matthew have you read Steven Birds response to the book to be published When Scotland Was Jewish?

http://community.haplozone.net/index.php?topic=2897.msg28598#msg28598

 

Best regards

Ross Kilpatrick

12 23 13 10 17 18 11 12 12 14 11 31

[mark young]

My Young line ia a very close match to you. 13 24 1310 16 16 11 12 12 13 11 30

[Adam Calhoun]

Hi, I guess I'm a bit late to this thread, but I'm a Calhoun who's E1b1b1a2*.  I guess it's good to know that I really *am* a Calhoun, and there was no hanky-panky by someone in the line ;)

But I was wondering how you know all this about being descended from a Thracian soldier around 100AD?!  Is that just from the paper you mention later on in the thread?  I've seen the standard genealogy, but hadn't heard about this.

[Ross Kilpatrick]

Hello Adam our DNA is very rare in Scotland and is definitely not Celtic.

It could not have naturally occured in Scotland it had to have been taken there by someone already with this DNA. Research such as Steven Birds as well as others points to it very strongly that it could only have arrived in Scotland by the Romans taking Thracian Soldiers there. Now have a look at the 2 sites below.

The first one contains the names of 32 people all with similiar DNA results but with mutation who all belong to the Kilpatrick-Calhoun-Colquhoun direct line from what is presumed to be a Thracian Auxillery soldier taken to Scotland around 100AD by the Romans.If you have similiar DNA result and are not already entered into this grouping please join it.

 

The second site is the one I set up on Double Helix to try to get more involvement from those with our name and DNA. Adam if more of us get involved we will find more information so your involvement will be a benefit to all of us. I had no idea when I first got my results it was only by contacting a distant DNA match  Andrew Lancaster who told me about the Thracian link which is very exciting and interesting. I could have just sat back and said oh wow I have Balkan DNA and that was that but no I started asking questions like you are doing. You will see that a DNA expert known as Farroukh has assessed my own DNA result as being first century Scotland. Thracians were in the area of the Antonine Wall which crosses through the town of Kilpatrick in 100AD.

http://www.haplozone.net/e3b/project/cluster/38

http://community.haplozone.net/index.php?topic=3011.0

Contact me on my email [e-mail] if you would like more info.

Best regards

Ross

[francis martin]

Hi Brett,I'm also E1b1b1a2-v13 and my father and grandfather were from Carnoustie.I did a search for dna matches and found one John Robertson from quite close...Dunkeld Perthshire....11 out of my 12 markers.I've read quite a lot on the net about the thracian auxilliaries and the Balkan origins and it seems there were quite a few Roman marching camps around this area of Scotland,north of Antonines wall...spcecifically,Battledykes,Kirbuddo,Marcus and Flavon.Battledykes was in the north of Forfar so quite close to Carnoustie and Dunkeld.....interesting  info out there with my next 2 matches with 10 of my 12  markers being from Hungary and the Ukraine.Quite exciting since I knew I was different,lol.

[Brett Kerry Johnson]

Hi, I am sorry it took my so long to reply.  It's great to hear from more V13 s.  Although it appears that we all are descended from the Thracian/Dacian Aux troops aroung the walls, it does seem that our other matches do seem to be from all over Euope.  I would like to see where in Europe these same troops were used.  I know that Germany was one.  So, it is not out of the question that a unit stationed on the wall near Dumfries, could later be stationed in Germany, and related soldiers have families in both locations.  Not too long ago I was sitting on the border of Afghanistan and Pakistan and thinking that things haven't changed that much in the past two thousand years.  Cheers all.